A Powerhouse CEO On Empowering Women At Work

Tell us a bit about your career journey to date, Mary…

Initially I wanted to be a music journalist and started by freelancing for lots of music magazines including Melody Maker and Empire. Despite having a degree in politics, I always wanted to work in creative industries – but I never thought I would end up as CEO of a business like this. Via the University of London website, I replied to an ad looking for an agent’s assistant. I thought I’d be in that job temporarily, but I ended up staying for seven years. It was the best possible training I could hope for because I had to do everything – I was the literary agent, the brand agent, the TV agent, the live agent. Around that time, I nominated myself and was selected for a prestigious industry 30 under 30 award, which led to a job at James Grant – which was what YMU was previously known as. I became a director in the entertainment division, and I’ve climbed the ranks ever since. 

What are you responsible for now as global CEO? 

To make sure that the strategy for the group is aligned with what we want for our shareholders. We're private equity backed, so I spend a lot of time speaking with our board. I spend a lot of time speaking with our clients and our team, talking about growth and making sure we're attracting the right businesses, appliers, talent and team members, so we can grow in a way that is aligned with our values. Our business is made up of four or five key sectors: entertainment, music, sport, and business management, so it's important that all of those managing directors meet on a regular basis to know what's going on across the wider business.

As a woman at the top of the tree, what have you learnt about leadership? 

Clarity is key to good leadership. Be crystal clear about what the vision is, the direction of travel, how we get there, and what is expected of the team. The details can change, so I’ve certainly become less rigid over the years. Delegating is important too, as is recognising that when you take on a leadership role – you do really have to say goodbye to the previous role to do the new one correctly. Leadership also requires courage. 

What were the changes you made when you were appointed CEO?

One of the things that I really wanted to do when I took over at YMU was to change the perception – and reality – that it was a boys club. Historically, it had been an entirely male board. There were no female managing directors except for me, and we’d always had a male chair of the board. I knew that was wrong on several levels. One, there was a moral imperative to make sure women have a seat at the table. I also felt there was an economic imperative for women to have a seat at the table: more than 50% of our client base is female, more than 50% of audiences are female, and more than 50% of the household finances often come from the female.

How did you go about changing things?

We started at the top by changing the composition of the board, then worked through the business. We’re highly unusual in the sense that we are a large-scale talent agency with a female chair, female CEO, female CFO and multiple female managing directors. We've walked the talk about being a business that embraces diversity and acknowledges what's going on in the market. In any company, culture is what you can see and feel, it’s not just words.

Why does gender inequality persist across multiple industries and what are the obstacles that need to be overcome?

I can only point to my own industry, but the anecdotal evidence points to the fact that the entertainment space continues to be dominated by white males. I struggle to understand that when women are so vitally important to the talent landscape, the broadcast landscape and the entertainment sector – and the audiences that support those sectors. There are a great number of women who want to be involved, who are qualified to be involved but, for whatever reason, they're not getting access to those positions – and when they do, they're often not compensated equally to their male counterparts, which is what results in the gender pay gap. That’s then compounded by the fact that, when you see women actually attain those positions within certain companies, you often find they're tailing off at the point at which they're having children because there isn't the structural support in place to help them go through that. 

These are significant obstacles because if and when they choose to return to work they're often taking a pay cut or demotion to get back in the room. These are the issues many women could potentially face during their careers, and it's recognition by the companies and actions and initiatives around maternity support that could really help.

In your own company, how did you convince people that gender equality would benefit everyone?

I was very fortunate that there were a couple of men on the board that were very sympathetic to what I was saying. I'm not sure anyone on the board had thought about it until it was raised and raised quite forcefully. I told them it was weird that I was the only woman sat there and that we needed to do something about it. I told them that if we are to sit in front of our female clients and talk about being this progressive, forward-facing business, we needed to do that with a board that didn’t look like something out of the 1980s. That was understood, and they were supportive of me as the CEO to take the action necessary to change things. 

What are the main identifiable barriers you see for women in the world of work?

There are so many barriers for women – not only to get their foot through the door, but actually to thrive at work. There are structural issues and there are societal expectations that hold them back, and those two things in combination are incredibly tough. It's not something men have to really factor in. You never hear them being asked how they balance being a working dad. And yet the topic of being a working mum is one of endless fascination. It’s got to change, and change at a root and branch level within society because, until men take responsibility at home, and until society recognises that men should be as responsible as women for child rearing, this is a problem that perpetuates. 

What were those changes?

There was a little bit of movement on the board. No one was forced out – our male chair at the time had come to the end of his tenure and so there was an opportunity to replace him. I was quite determined that it would be with a woman. The same opportunity occurred with our CFO when they left a few months later. Of course, there’s no question that the candidates had to be qualified and right for the role, but I knew I could find them in the women who want to work in this industry.

How would you advise women to advocate for themselves at work?

Once you have attained a position in any company, understand that you got it on merit. No one's giving you a job at any company as a favour or because they feel sorry for you. You’ve earned your right at the table, so once you're there, it's your responsibility to stand in your own power and find your voice. Even if you feel that's pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone, know you’re there for a reason and you're as legitimate as any of your male peers. Make sure that you stand up and have an opinion. There’s a famous quote about opportunity expanding in proportion to one's courage – and I really believe that. You have two options: sit there silently or put yourself forward. 

What responsibility do you think women at the top have in solving this issue? 

They need to stop perpetuating this idolised myth of having it all, and that everybody has to be perfect – the perfect mum and the perfect employee – and that it's all easy for other women. We need to be more honest and transparent about how challenging the juggle is, and that perfection is the enemy of progress.

And what can they do specifically?

Women need to make space for other women. There are a few ways you can do that – offering your time, mentoring other women and making space at the table for them. If you have an opportunity to promote and help other women, that's key. You need to create structural changes in your organisation that support women through moments in their lives and careers where there might be a big shift for them, like when they have a baby. A lot of women in the entertainment sector tail off between 30 and 40 because it's really difficult to raise a child at the same time as working. We've changed our maternity policies to be more generous and it’s a shared policy, so the expectation isn't purely on the woman. We also have a menopause policy, so women have an opportunity to thrive at different points in their life, when they may need more assistance. They get access to Bupa doctors who can help them through that part of their journey.

What about disclosure – how important is that? 

The more corporate you are, the more influence you have, so it's vitally important to disclose information on gender pay gaps or anything else to do with diversity and equality. We're obliged to disclose because of our size and so we'll be disclosing this year as well. Since I took over in 2021, our gender pay gap has gone from 29% to 9%. There is more work to do, and I am really determined to close that gap as quickly as I can. But I need to do that in a sustainable way that makes sense for the business. We've made some real in-roads, but I would like to see other businesses in the entertainment sector be open about the changes they’re making. No one expects everybody to have instant solutions to a very long-standing problem, but it starts with transparency and a willingness to put policies in place that move you in that direction. 

What else have you done to improve diversity at large? 

There are lots of different types of diversity. For example, we're very conscious that in the entertainment sector, the entry-level salary can mean anyone from low-income backgrounds might automatically be eliminated from going for that role. As such, we've made our London wage £30,000 for the most junior position within the company, to enable the most diverse range of applicants to apply. If you're pitching at £18,000 for an entry level role in London, I don't know how anyone’s doing that unless they've got parental or wider help. We're also trying to advertise in places beyond just traditional platforms like LinkedIn. We work at lot with the Black Young Professional Network as well.

So what else is needed to improve the working landscape for women?

Unless society gets its head around women being fully autonomous beings who deserve a right to a career and to earn, then they're going to be in real trouble. In many ways, we’re going backwards, not forwards – just look at issues like reproductive rights in the US. We really need to see a change in the way the West perceives women. We need more moments when we're actually seeing women in genuine positions of power who can potentially change the fortunes of other women within the world.

I also think technologies will help women because that will enable more flexibility, which in turn will enable them to have access to different types of jobs and different types of income. And then companies actually need to be held accountable. Transparency and public accountability are critical if there's going to be any form of meaningful, long-term change that sticks. What gets measured gets done.  

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to working women, what would it be? 

Stay curious and never stop learning. The world is moving at such a dizzying pace, so to keep up with that and stay ahead of it, you have to stay curious. I spend a lot of time listening to podcasts and reading newspapers and going on social media – it’s so important to remain open to what's next.

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